FWIW this has caused a big storm in China. The root of the issue is known to be caused by the battery cell vendor Amprius changing the battery design w/o notifying the power bank manufacturers. AFAIKT Amprius lost the 3C certification (a certification in China) because of this incident.
Excerpt from the report above (translated using Google):
> The Paper learned from an insider that Anker Innovations' battery cell supplier is already a leading battery cell supplier in the industry, and did not inform customers after it changed materials. In addition to Anker Innovations, the supplier also cooperates with leading power bank brands, so the impact is huge. Although Anker Innovations did not name the supplier, an insider pointed out that the supplier was Amprius.
UPDATE:
There's an exclusive interview by 36kr with one of Anker's VPs:
I work in manufacturing in the US. Incoming quality control, for Chinese vendors, is necessarily set up with zero-trust. This isn't a "trust but verify" sort of thing, it's strictly "do not trust". Assume that, at every step of the chain, there will be a lie: change of process, material change, collected data, and that the product being given to you is even yours (delivering a knockoff at the final step, and reselling yours on the gray market).
This is all common knowledge, proven by example after example that it's necessary to have zero trust. It's truly an adversarial system. All the extra engineering effort for IQC is still cheaper. And, there's rarely an alternative to the amazing manufacturing ecosystem that is China.
After tracking down several of these types of issues, it appears that the Chabuduo mindset [1] is a very real thing.
Yep. Anything I get from China, even from a vendor I have done lots of business with in the past gets at minimum random samples inspected and tested when appropriate. Every single shipment, zero exceptions before use.
So many things are caught. At best there is a lack of QA on the Chinese side, but it's definitely worse than that. They have no qualms sending you known-bad items, and just see it as "maybe the customer won't notice" and worth a try. It's definitely a giant pain in the ass, and adds a ton of expense and friction to the process. Lots of stuff you simply cannot source from any other country though - even if you do, the supply chain usually traces back to China anyways so all you're doing is adding a middleman layer to the problem.
It's extremely important to set very explicit and strict quality parameters and specifications prior to any deal you do with a vendor. Even then you will miss things that will later be argued about. The more you can specify the better, otherwise it will be seen as negotiable/changeable.
A lot of folks used to living in a high trust society get really taking advantage by this. Any vendor sourcing from China and not implementing an extreme level of QA to the process is being negligent, and I assume that's quite a lot if not the vast majority.
>A lot of folks used to living in a high trust society get really taking advantage by this.
Everything you describe happens even with US suppliers. Dealing with one right now that sent us sheet metal that was painted + silkscreened incorrectly (a very large symbol was completely dropped by them). They proceeded to "refinish" them, wrong by silkscreening a second time which completely degraded the quality of smaller text on the metal panel.
They got sent back and told to rework the panels completely (strip them). And what did they do? Not strip the paint fully and now components that slot into the panels do not fit because there's basically an extra 1/8" of paint on the inside edges.
The worse part due to our own internal politics, we couldn't just let use our significantly more reliable Chinese supplier who has easily eaten a million dollars in errors before.
This US supplier is charging us for every single bit of their incompetence.
IMO high tech cost optimization is like the opposite of chabuduo - it's not half-assing, but over value engineer under pressure. The PRC's "amazing" manufacturing system fosters adversarial competition down the supply chain because there are so many competitors, packed with technical talent incentivized to value-engineer the shit out of everything to squeeze out fractions of a RMB more per unit. Some engineering team probably poured thousands of man-hours and retooled $$$ manufacturing lines just to gain a tiny margin edge. Sometimes that backfires. But the pressure isn't about laziness - it's involutionary effort. The result is still a zero-trust environment, since when manufacturing base is so dense, everyone incentivized to cut corners or optimize/tweak silently, they usually do, forcing everyone upstream to stay hyper vigilant. So we end up in default equilibrium where it's cheaper/more optimal to squeeze downstream and inspect.
^^^ is closer to the truth for the swap out; eek out those margins.
Culturally, chabuduo is more of an excuse/greed of the lazy to convince you it’s close enough [that it won’t make a difference to you] and they’re too lazy or out of patience, for many reasons they also don’t want to explain to you.
Yep, there is an interesting book "Poorly made in china" talking about the same thing... not powerbanks but same modus operandi.
For example (hope I didn't mess up the details, it's been some time since I read it), a cosmetics manufacturer vendor replaced shampoo bottles with ones made with less (thinner) plastics multiple times, untill they started being destroyed in shipping... without notifying the company that ordered the shampoo... and then wanted more money for the "better" shampoo bottles.
Also some very questionable practices:
-----
The hair gel that we produced at the factory was green. One day, I noticed that the worker who filled the gel bottles had a skin condition. His hands were covered with the slick formula, and beneath the green, shimmery layer, I could see that the skin on his hands was peeling. Small, raw patches of flesh were exposed, and you didn’t have to be a dermatologist to see that his skin was infected.
“We should probably do something about this one,” I said to Sister, trying to sound calm, while in my head alarm bells were ringing.
Sister did not see the point. “Why?” she asked.
“It might be a health issue?”
“But the worker has done nothing wrong. It’s just an allergic reaction.”
Trying to press the matter, I suggested that the worker might contaminate the product.
Sister twisted around the argument. “How can he harm the product when it was the product that caused him the harm?”
This seems to be startlingly contrast to all the talks about "US manufacturers are absolutely doomed w/o Chinese vendors' great products and quality control" when Trump increased the tariffs.
I didn't hear a single person talking about wanting or needing China's great quality control. Are you sure there's a conflict here? I think you oversimplified when you were listening to what people were saying.
Only to someone not involved with Chinese manufacturing.
It's not too hard to find good manufacturers that you can trust. If you do, they will be operating with this same mindset, completely distrusting everyone else. Great! You're done, right? Well sure, until management changes (this happened to us once).
Not sure what you have had to deal with but that is not my experience at all. More often than not any issues I have had with suppliers is my purchasing department was the one trying to get lower cost goods without getting engineering and Vendor QC involved.
I have never had to deal with an American supplier "downsizing" wire from one guage to the next smaller for example.
Nor as linked above, including extra electronics to exfiltrate credit card data from terminals.
I did not have too much experience with US manufacturers. I however can talk about Canada and Brasil. My experience with Brasil was stellar. Canada - you better fucking watch. As for China - I did order directly high power DC/DC converters. Those were available in the US and China. China came 10 times cheaper ($25 vs $250 apiece). The devices where we have installed those still work like a charm more than a decade after.
Chinese manufacturing 10+ years ago is completely different to Chinese manufacturing in 2025. the other comment about "zero trust" is significantly more apt
> Amprius Technologies, Inc. has never developed or manufactured batteries for power banks. For accuracy, please attribute the certification issue to Apex (Wuxi), not Amprius. Recent reports have incorrectly linked Amprius Technologies, Inc. to a battery certification issue. The company involved is Apex (Wuxi) Co., Ltd., formerly known as Amprius (Wuxi) Co., Ltd., a Chinese lithium battery manufacturer based in Wuxi, China.
> Apex (Wuxi) was once a subsidiary of Amprius Inc. but was never part of Amprius Technologies, Inc. In early 2022, Apex was spun off, renamed, and has operated independently since, with no ties or relationships to Amprius Technologies, Inc.
Anker should know better by this point. Changing specs without notifying customers is the basic formula of every Chinese manufacturer. They must have gotten lazy with their internal QA/QC processes and random sampling.
It clearly isn't the "basic formula" if it was so out of the norm it caused a national controversy and got the vendor's certifications removed. Your bitterness is showing.
"After all, we're not savages. We're English, and the English are best at everything."
- William Golding, "The Lord of the Flies"
Murica is likewise the best at everything. Including not bolting down an emergency exit so that it falls out of an airplane at cruise altitude. But that, as always, "is different". Oh, and murdering the whistleblower. But hey, your fellow countrymen can't be evil by definition. It was somehow the CCP's doing.
No, quality control is never based on external packaging, for anything*, since quality control is about the objective quality of the final product: if you're not measuring it, you're not controlling that parameters quality. For batteries, this includes things like x-ray to verify all the layer geometries and assembly, materials, etc [1].
First off, I love Luma Field. Always incredible to see what's going on inside things. Even just fun to scroll through their Twitter.
Second, Anker is one of the few companies I actually have a very high trust for. A few years back I bought a wall charger[0] from them, it has 2 USB-C and a Type A. A month in, one of the Type-C ports wouldn't charge if the other port was being used. If you send a support ticket they annoyingly give you a response with very basic trouble shooting. But if you respond to that you get a person. They just sent me a new one right away (<10 days) and there was no need to return the charger or anything. So I still use it, just blocked the bad port. I gotta say, whenever I encounter good customer service I become loyal.
I wanted to say this because I think a quality matters. Quality often takes nuances and this can often run counter to maximizing profits (Lemon Markets and all that). Looking at Luma's report, I don't get the indication that they had this issue because they were cutting corners but looks like it must be upstream[1]. But am happy to see they were giving gift cards along with the recall. Companies should minimize mistakes as best as they can, but it is important to judge them by how they handle mistakes. It can be easy to get caught in the negativity but I personally don't think I'll stop buying Anker products.
Anker is above average, but the bar for average when it comes to Chinese electronics is, "might not burn down your house immediately."
For reasons probably bordering on OCD, I watch a LOT of teardown videos of various electronics. And one thing that always strikes me is how a company with a product will routinely and often change what's inside, while the model number and exterior appearance stays the same.
For example, I wanted to buy a big 12V LiFePo4 battery and all of the cheapest ones are on Amazon. Amazon reviews are generally garbage because they're all borderline fake (from useless Viners, or wanna-be useless Viners). The only "honest" reviews of these I could find were YouTube teardowns where they basically have to destroy the case in order to take it apart. I would watch a teardown of one popular battery, and then run across a different teardown of the same model from someone else and the internals of each would be completely different. Completely different cells, battery management board, wires, construction everything. But they both looked identical on the outside.
Finished product manufacturers in China rarely have a consistent supply chain. They are negotiating suppliers and batches of components constantly, and are constantly re-engineering everything about the product, except for the external appearance of the case. This Luma Field article confirms what I've already run across myself.
This is also obvious if you think about installing OpenWRT on a router. You'll quickly find out that there's often various versions of the same product; it used to be that they would mark it somewhere, but that doesn't always happen anymore, and only some versions are compatible.
And it seemed the main issue as identified by Luna was not with the cells but the bank design itself.
> If the recall is affecting units made with 18650 battery cells from multiple suppliers, that suggests the root cause of the recall stems from elsewhere in the power bank. We next focused on the PCB and assembly of the board with the cells.
> We can measure the distance to quantify how dramatically the gap between the positive and negative bus bars varies across the three units. In PB1, that distance is only 0.52 mm
But it is still upstream since AFAIK Anker just rebrands other products.
This scrutiny actually makes me more inclined to buy Anker products. There's more trust in a company that will transparently communicate, correct mistakes and raise the safety bar for future products. It also brings to light issues with other manufacturers in the supply chain.
Amazon sent me a recall notice about this one, indicating they had it from my purchase history, but oddly I couldn't find it in my own collection of power banks, or in the ones I gave to my wife. I'm worried I might have purchased one for another family member as a gift and not remembered who.
The recall is concerning, especially since once they started with the one, they quickly added several more to the list. I've ordered at least 17 Anker products over the last ten years (not all of them power banks). I pay the premium over cheaper external batteries, and I have advised my family in the past to do the same. This is ostensibly because they are supposed to be the guys that don't explode. If I can't even take that for granted, then there's really no reason to maintain customer loyalty. There are countless other, cheaper brands available online from no-name Chinese companies.
Those random brands that flood amazon (TYUOIT or ERYWERP) are dispensable brands in part because it allows them to discharge the company if something like a recall becomes necessary.
Part of the price of cheap shit.
Anker on the other hand is a recognizable name with a brand image. So they need to do right to keep their trust.
I only buy portable Li-ion batteries from manufacturers with a history of product recalls in my country or directly from major retailers that regularly recall defective products.
I also only buy portable battery models that I believe will sell or has sold many thousands of units so any widespread manufacturering defects should become apparent sooner.
I think the CT scan tech is cool and the article is written nicely but I don't get the point of this article. Seems like if Anker were using the CT scanner, they still wouldn't be able spot the change. I'm confused.
Even though this is a recall, a bad thing, it actually makes me more likely to buy from Anker than a no-name brand on Amazon. Those no-name brands almost definitely have problems like this (or worse), but we rarely hear about them.
Eh. Anker did the bare minimum to address their liability.
They won’t pay for devices that Amazon says are in scope, but the black on black serial number is illegible.
For devices that are covered, they advise you to not dispose of them at a retailer like Home Depot that accepts lithium batteries, but provides no means to safely dispose of this fire hazard. So I got my $40 payment, but I assume now that will disclaim any liability when my house or car goes on fire while I try to find a facility that accepts dangerous batteries.
Honestly, when shopping no-name slop I'm seeking out products that don't have batteries, or at least don't have powerful ones (non-vibrating game controllers are probably pretty safe). One less risk.
If they have flat batteries you could be safe if they are LiFePO which are quite hard to light on fire. YMMV depending on the actual battery. Usually the come from batches of old phones which went out of production are put into these kind of things since they can be bought on the cheap.
If they put in a round cell I'd stay away. I usually replace the cell with one I know is good and check the circuit for protection. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen something with no over or undervolt protection whatsoever.
No phones use this chemistry. I have no idea what you're on about.
>Wouldn't be the first time I've seen something with no over or undervolt protection whatsoever.
Even the cheapest lithium ion charge controllers have overvolt protection by the nature of how they work. What can happen however is a controller could be specced to charge to 4.3V per cell and a 4.2V cell is instead installed. This is a problem.
I am not sure that no-name batteries are that more dangerous. A common reason batteries catch fire is when things are too densely packed, causing shorts. A famous case is the Galaxy Note 7, which is Samsung, not Chinese tech.
No-name batteries are often way lower capacity than advertised, which means less stuff, and therefore less densely packed and less stuff to burn.
I am not saying that these batteries are safer, or that it is not a scam, but the fact that these batteries are lower capacity can compensate for the sketchy build. Power electronics is another story, so while the battery may be ok, the charging circuit may not.
I wish more devices took field-replaceable cylindrical Li-ion cells. They're pretty common in flashlights and rare in other products where they would be advantageous.
There's a flurry of battery holders that accept 21700 cells, but the power delivery is just too weak IMHO.
From memory, the max output was about 20~30W for the bigger models [0]. For 2 cell types it gives 10W, so barely good enough to slowly charge a smartphone.
It would be awesome if we were able to get more things besides vapes (and apparently some flashlights; I assume there are many niches where they are common) to use 18650 or even 21700 li-ion cells. I see most people I know buy AAs by the pallet and go through them regularly for their controllers, led lights, kids toys, etc.. and few I believe bother to dispose of them correctly.
Also, repeating your sentiment, for all the tech gadgets.. bluetooth speakers, I'm looking at you.. why not have replaceable batteries for those? There have to be enough vapers now that the knowledge of this type of battery as distinct from the old alkaline ones has passed into mainstream consciousness. This would be a huge selling feature for me.
The reasons I see are that it is because the rechargable li-ion are more dangerous and a fire hazard, but is this really true? As with most anything that can carry a risk if misused, I can find a few dozen instances where a vape battery went awry, but surely the benefits outweigh the concerns?
Edit: I do understand the irony of saying this on a post about when they do go boom.
The market for the end product (and the risk aversion of the manufacturer) makes a difference.
Flashlight and vape enthusiasts are mostly adults who likely trend as all three of: older and more knowledgeable, more likely to take and accept risks, and more willing to pay a premium for the benefits of replaceable batteries... and the companies that make vapes and high-powered enthusiast flashlights are probably less worried about a customer suing them over a battery issue than a large toy manufacturer. If you're a vape company, you have bigger safety issues to worry about -- like the normal operation of your products :)
I actually have a Bluetooth speaker that takes a removable 18650. It was branded "Polaris V8", but I think it's a white label product that's no longer in production. It still works, and most other ten year old Bluetooth speakers probably don't.
I'm with you on the risk/benefit calculation. E-waste is bad, and the option to bring a spare battery makes a lot of products more useful. A Li-ion cell can be dangerous if mishandled, but less so than a jug of gasoline or larger power tools.
This can be considerably mitigated by sticking a protection circuit on the end of a cell, which makes it no more dangerous than the proprietary Li-ion batteries used in things like cameras.
> and few I believe bother to dispose of them correctly.
There are no mercury alkalines anymore for general consumer use, those collection bins were removed from stores in the 90's and they can be disposed of with normal waste.
That's true, but it's pretty common to stick a protection circuit on the end of a cell, making it similarly safe to the proprietary Li-ion batteries that power cameras and the like.
It's also common to not put protection on the end of an 18650, which is probably a big reason we don't see more of these in user-serviceable devices. Even if you ship a device with a protected cell, the inherent implication of an 18650 socket is that someone is going to buy a cell from somewhere else and stick it in there. (and maybe throw a few in their junk drawer along with some loose change and rusty silverware)
Perhaps one of the things that should be included in right to repair legislation is stronger liability protection in cases where a third-party battery is installed in a device.
I do often stick unprotected cells in flashlights that came with protected ones. It's important to know whether the flashlight can over-discharge the cell, but most can't, and it's important to not short-circuit them. I suggest people who don't want to learn about batteries stick with protected.
I have two of these powerbanks, one ordered in 2019 and another in 2021. Amazon sent me scary emails saying these things will kill me. Anker's recall site says I'm not affected and the product is safe to use.
I'm not sure who to trust, but I've erred on the side of caution and trashed the batteries. Because it's not worth dying in a fire over $30 in batteries.
I would have just trusted Anker in this case. Amazon only knows you bought that model of battery, not whether it was affected. Anker would (or should) know exactly what range of serials were made with the problematic cells.
That is not true. Please don't spread misinformation that could lead to deaths or people losing everything they own.
You can put out a Lithium battery fire with a class-D fire extinguisher. If you don't have one available, you can isolate the burning battery by surrounding it with sand or other inert, dry substances to keep it from spreading until the fire department arrives with proper equipment to dispose of or extinguish it.
You forgot having a fume hood, or halon foam system. Or just a silver heat resistant suit and SCBA. Please don't hold back on the pedantry and "you can"s. People might miss these valuable options and not know they can just coexist with the lithium fire right next door!
Note that they have another recall for other models going, though their language for those sounds somewhat less dramatic compared to what they used for the PowerCore 10000. More of a "covering our assess" recall than a "holy shit we might be liable for lots of damage" recall.
I had a Powercore III Sense 10K (I think), which doesn’t appear on that list, swell on me recently. It’s one of my newer batteries and I bought from Anker trusting their reputation and past purchases. I purchased their Soundcore earbuds, which failed to charge after a few weeks. I don’t think I have any cables from them anymore as they’ve all failed as quickly (or more quickly) than less expensive options.
My current perspective, recall or not, is their quality is no different from the alphabet soup companies selling identical looking (and possibly identical) items.
It seems like the overheating issue is “not thier fault,” but part of being a trusted brand isn’t just recalling but vetting suppliers and the components they receive.
Yes, Lumafield does some of my favorite marketing ever. It adds more (absolute) value to the world than they receive back from it. Their monthly CT scans are some of my favorite small joys: https://www.scanofthemonth.com/
I mean, there's probably very good ROI on this marketing; I'm not saying they're foolish or selfless. Just that it doesn't cost them that much to do, so it's a win-win for everyone.
Lithium is an (albeit soft) solid at room temp. Im not sure there is risk of it becoming powder in a blender but adding water during the blending process (or at any point) would be the main concern for me.
I took mine to an Office Depot that "recycled the battery" for free. The guy at the register printed a receipt for having taken it, then took it from me and walked back into the administrative office by the front of the store. I assume it was to take it home. At least I tried...
Places like Staples and Office Depot have actual electronics/battery recycling bins they keep in the back. They aren't in front for anyone to drop stuff in because they limit what they will accept. So not sure why you're assuming he would take it home. I mean it's not impossible but I'd assume he was just putting it in their electronics recycling.
here in Central Europe batteries in the trash can are the cause for massive dumpster fires and explosions (not that often, but there was one just last month, took several days to extinguish the fire [0])
This is not just a central europe problem. A bit further west people throw them in the trash as well. Fun and smelly since the garbage truck drivers usually notice it when driving and then dump all trash on the street.
(Notably, this page mentions "Anker has received 19 reports of fires and explosions. This includes two reports of minor burn injuries not requiring medical attention and 11 reports of property damage totaling over $60,700." Puts it into context! That's not a house, but with numbers like that, I wonder if a couple cars were destroyed.)
It was fun to explore the CT scan on my own, then read the article to see what was actually identified, and go back to the scan to find those things myself (despite the limitation of having scans from only one unit -- it was still great!). Initially, I thought there were no details of insides of the battery units, but after adjusting the settings, I was able to see the internal layers!
I have a recalled Anker battery sitting on my stoop, lest it burn my house down. Who on earth (NE USA ideally) will accept this for safe disposal / recycling? Normal battery recycling places don’t want a recalled battery, natch. Serious question, pls help
Contact your local hazardous waste facility or check with Anker directly at anker.com/a1263-recall as they're required to provide free disposal options for recalled products under CPSC regulations.
I wish this was a viable solution. Linked page says, effectively ‘you’re on your own’. My municipality has two events coming up - August and late October, both calendar events say ‘no electronics’. I really don’t get how this is supposed to work.
For some reason I received a recall notice for one of these from Amazon but I don't recognize it and could not find any purchases in my order history. I vaguely recall my wife might have bought something like this years ago as a gift for some one else but our accounts aren't linked.
X-ray inspection is not that rare, there’s even small assembly houses here (Spain) that can do xray automated inspection.
This has been standard for years to the point I’ve been sent forms for assembly houses RFQ where there are checkboxes for xray inspection, and I haven’t handled a serious assembly development in ~4 years.
What’s new and they’re advertising here is CT, which is another level.
Literally on the same website as this post you'll find testimonials of companies that use CT scanners to find leaks in cosmetics bottles, and to refine the fit of a deodorant cap.
This is one of the Chinese reports on the issue: https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_31048287
Excerpt from the report above (translated using Google):
> The Paper learned from an insider that Anker Innovations' battery cell supplier is already a leading battery cell supplier in the industry, and did not inform customers after it changed materials. In addition to Anker Innovations, the supplier also cooperates with leading power bank brands, so the impact is huge. Although Anker Innovations did not name the supplier, an insider pointed out that the supplier was Amprius.
UPDATE:
There's an exclusive interview by 36kr with one of Anker's VPs:
https://m.36kr.com/p/3365435892680709
This is all common knowledge, proven by example after example that it's necessary to have zero trust. It's truly an adversarial system. All the extra engineering effort for IQC is still cheaper. And, there's rarely an alternative to the amazing manufacturing ecosystem that is China.
After tracking down several of these types of issues, it appears that the Chabuduo mindset [1] is a very real thing.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32465780
So many things are caught. At best there is a lack of QA on the Chinese side, but it's definitely worse than that. They have no qualms sending you known-bad items, and just see it as "maybe the customer won't notice" and worth a try. It's definitely a giant pain in the ass, and adds a ton of expense and friction to the process. Lots of stuff you simply cannot source from any other country though - even if you do, the supply chain usually traces back to China anyways so all you're doing is adding a middleman layer to the problem.
It's extremely important to set very explicit and strict quality parameters and specifications prior to any deal you do with a vendor. Even then you will miss things that will later be argued about. The more you can specify the better, otherwise it will be seen as negotiable/changeable.
A lot of folks used to living in a high trust society get really taking advantage by this. Any vendor sourcing from China and not implementing an extreme level of QA to the process is being negligent, and I assume that's quite a lot if not the vast majority.
It a glance this feels insane. Batteries are in everything and such a basic need.
How is it possible that buying through known scammers with tons of QA is still cheaper than manufacturing in the West?
Obviously for Tesla it isn't cheaper to buy from China, so why is it thought to be cheaper for the rest of the West? Is it purely scale?
(no idea if that’s the case, I have no specialized knowledge about batteries, just venturing a guess)
It is remarkable that Tesla was able to figure it out.
Everything you describe happens even with US suppliers. Dealing with one right now that sent us sheet metal that was painted + silkscreened incorrectly (a very large symbol was completely dropped by them). They proceeded to "refinish" them, wrong by silkscreening a second time which completely degraded the quality of smaller text on the metal panel.
They got sent back and told to rework the panels completely (strip them). And what did they do? Not strip the paint fully and now components that slot into the panels do not fit because there's basically an extra 1/8" of paint on the inside edges.
The worse part due to our own internal politics, we couldn't just let use our significantly more reliable Chinese supplier who has easily eaten a million dollars in errors before.
This US supplier is charging us for every single bit of their incompetence.
IMO high tech cost optimization is like the opposite of chabuduo - it's not half-assing, but over value engineer under pressure. The PRC's "amazing" manufacturing system fosters adversarial competition down the supply chain because there are so many competitors, packed with technical talent incentivized to value-engineer the shit out of everything to squeeze out fractions of a RMB more per unit. Some engineering team probably poured thousands of man-hours and retooled $$$ manufacturing lines just to gain a tiny margin edge. Sometimes that backfires. But the pressure isn't about laziness - it's involutionary effort. The result is still a zero-trust environment, since when manufacturing base is so dense, everyone incentivized to cut corners or optimize/tweak silently, they usually do, forcing everyone upstream to stay hyper vigilant. So we end up in default equilibrium where it's cheaper/more optimal to squeeze downstream and inspect.
Culturally, chabuduo is more of an excuse/greed of the lazy to convince you it’s close enough [that it won’t make a difference to you] and they’re too lazy or out of patience, for many reasons they also don’t want to explain to you.
> and that the product being given to you is even yours (delivering a knockoff at the final step, and reselling yours on the gray market).
For example (hope I didn't mess up the details, it's been some time since I read it), a cosmetics manufacturer vendor replaced shampoo bottles with ones made with less (thinner) plastics multiple times, untill they started being destroyed in shipping... without notifying the company that ordered the shampoo... and then wanted more money for the "better" shampoo bottles.
Also some very questionable practices:
-----
The hair gel that we produced at the factory was green. One day, I noticed that the worker who filled the gel bottles had a skin condition. His hands were covered with the slick formula, and beneath the green, shimmery layer, I could see that the skin on his hands was peeling. Small, raw patches of flesh were exposed, and you didn’t have to be a dermatologist to see that his skin was infected.
“We should probably do something about this one,” I said to Sister, trying to sound calm, while in my head alarm bells were ringing.
Sister did not see the point. “Why?” she asked.
“It might be a health issue?”
“But the worker has done nothing wrong. It’s just an allergic reaction.”
Trying to press the matter, I suggested that the worker might contaminate the product.
Sister twisted around the argument. “How can he harm the product when it was the product that caused him the harm?”
I can only find https://youtu.be/3ZTGwcHQfLY but earlier this year it was all over YouTube.
Only to someone not involved with Chinese manufacturing.
It's not too hard to find good manufacturers that you can trust. If you do, they will be operating with this same mindset, completely distrusting everyone else. Great! You're done, right? Well sure, until management changes (this happened to us once).
The only difference is that is more difficult to hold Chinese suppliers accountable. Americans will happily cheat you as well.
I have never had to deal with an American supplier "downsizing" wire from one guage to the next smaller for example.
Nor as linked above, including extra electronics to exfiltrate credit card data from terminals.
I did not have too much experience with US manufacturers. I however can talk about Canada and Brasil. My experience with Brasil was stellar. Canada - you better fucking watch. As for China - I did order directly high power DC/DC converters. Those were available in the US and China. China came 10 times cheaper ($25 vs $250 apiece). The devices where we have installed those still work like a charm more than a decade after.
US manufacturers aren't doomed: they already don't exist, and the infrastructure needed to support them also does not exist.
Close to impossible without a serious time investment and dedication.
> Amprius Technologies, Inc. has never developed or manufactured batteries for power banks. For accuracy, please attribute the certification issue to Apex (Wuxi), not Amprius. Recent reports have incorrectly linked Amprius Technologies, Inc. to a battery certification issue. The company involved is Apex (Wuxi) Co., Ltd., formerly known as Amprius (Wuxi) Co., Ltd., a Chinese lithium battery manufacturer based in Wuxi, China.
> Apex (Wuxi) was once a subsidiary of Amprius Inc. but was never part of Amprius Technologies, Inc. In early 2022, Apex was spun off, renamed, and has operated independently since, with no ties or relationships to Amprius Technologies, Inc.
(source: https://www.gizchina.com/2025/07/14/anker-baseus-romoss-amon...)
"After all, we're not savages. We're English, and the English are best at everything." - William Golding, "The Lord of the Flies"
Murica is likewise the best at everything. Including not bolting down an emergency exit so that it falls out of an airplane at cruise altitude. But that, as always, "is different". Oh, and murdering the whistleblower. But hey, your fellow countrymen can't be evil by definition. It was somehow the CCP's doing.
[1] Battery tester: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3IE3npEcuc
*unless the product is visible external packaging.
Second, Anker is one of the few companies I actually have a very high trust for. A few years back I bought a wall charger[0] from them, it has 2 USB-C and a Type A. A month in, one of the Type-C ports wouldn't charge if the other port was being used. If you send a support ticket they annoyingly give you a response with very basic trouble shooting. But if you respond to that you get a person. They just sent me a new one right away (<10 days) and there was no need to return the charger or anything. So I still use it, just blocked the bad port. I gotta say, whenever I encounter good customer service I become loyal.
I wanted to say this because I think a quality matters. Quality often takes nuances and this can often run counter to maximizing profits (Lemon Markets and all that). Looking at Luma's report, I don't get the indication that they had this issue because they were cutting corners but looks like it must be upstream[1]. But am happy to see they were giving gift cards along with the recall. Companies should minimize mistakes as best as they can, but it is important to judge them by how they handle mistakes. It can be easy to get caught in the negativity but I personally don't think I'll stop buying Anker products.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09Q52CXX1
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44639759
For reasons probably bordering on OCD, I watch a LOT of teardown videos of various electronics. And one thing that always strikes me is how a company with a product will routinely and often change what's inside, while the model number and exterior appearance stays the same.
For example, I wanted to buy a big 12V LiFePo4 battery and all of the cheapest ones are on Amazon. Amazon reviews are generally garbage because they're all borderline fake (from useless Viners, or wanna-be useless Viners). The only "honest" reviews of these I could find were YouTube teardowns where they basically have to destroy the case in order to take it apart. I would watch a teardown of one popular battery, and then run across a different teardown of the same model from someone else and the internals of each would be completely different. Completely different cells, battery management board, wires, construction everything. But they both looked identical on the outside.
Finished product manufacturers in China rarely have a consistent supply chain. They are negotiating suppliers and batches of components constantly, and are constantly re-engineering everything about the product, except for the external appearance of the case. This Luma Field article confirms what I've already run across myself.
If you try their provided troubleshooting instructions, your port may return normal again. Worth give it a try.
And it seemed the main issue as identified by Luna was not with the cells but the bank design itself.
> If the recall is affecting units made with 18650 battery cells from multiple suppliers, that suggests the root cause of the recall stems from elsewhere in the power bank. We next focused on the PCB and assembly of the board with the cells.
> We can measure the distance to quantify how dramatically the gap between the positive and negative bus bars varies across the three units. In PB1, that distance is only 0.52 mm
But it is still upstream since AFAIK Anker just rebrands other products.
The recall is concerning, especially since once they started with the one, they quickly added several more to the list. I've ordered at least 17 Anker products over the last ten years (not all of them power banks). I pay the premium over cheaper external batteries, and I have advised my family in the past to do the same. This is ostensibly because they are supposed to be the guys that don't explode. If I can't even take that for granted, then there's really no reason to maintain customer loyalty. There are countless other, cheaper brands available online from no-name Chinese companies.
Part of the price of cheap shit.
Anker on the other hand is a recognizable name with a brand image. So they need to do right to keep their trust.
I also only buy portable battery models that I believe will sell or has sold many thousands of units so any widespread manufacturering defects should become apparent sooner.
For now I don't avoid them, yet. Definitely not switching to a random cinese brand instead.
Reminiscent of the tylenol case study, handled a tough situation correctly and it's still on the shelf.
They won’t pay for devices that Amazon says are in scope, but the black on black serial number is illegible.
For devices that are covered, they advise you to not dispose of them at a retailer like Home Depot that accepts lithium batteries, but provides no means to safely dispose of this fire hazard. So I got my $40 payment, but I assume now that will disclaim any liability when my house or car goes on fire while I try to find a facility that accepts dangerous batteries.
If they put in a round cell I'd stay away. I usually replace the cell with one I know is good and check the circuit for protection. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen something with no over or undervolt protection whatsoever.
No phones use this chemistry. I have no idea what you're on about.
>Wouldn't be the first time I've seen something with no over or undervolt protection whatsoever.
Even the cheapest lithium ion charge controllers have overvolt protection by the nature of how they work. What can happen however is a controller could be specced to charge to 4.3V per cell and a 4.2V cell is instead installed. This is a problem.
I thought we were discussing a power bank not a phone.
No-name batteries are often way lower capacity than advertised, which means less stuff, and therefore less densely packed and less stuff to burn.
I am not saying that these batteries are safer, or that it is not a scam, but the fact that these batteries are lower capacity can compensate for the sketchy build. Power electronics is another story, so while the battery may be ok, the charging circuit may not.
From memory, the max output was about 20~30W for the bigger models [0]. For 2 cell types it gives 10W, so barely good enough to slowly charge a smartphone.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/PLCPDM/dp/B0DFPKXQZ1
Also, repeating your sentiment, for all the tech gadgets.. bluetooth speakers, I'm looking at you.. why not have replaceable batteries for those? There have to be enough vapers now that the knowledge of this type of battery as distinct from the old alkaline ones has passed into mainstream consciousness. This would be a huge selling feature for me.
The reasons I see are that it is because the rechargable li-ion are more dangerous and a fire hazard, but is this really true? As with most anything that can carry a risk if misused, I can find a few dozen instances where a vape battery went awry, but surely the benefits outweigh the concerns?
Edit: I do understand the irony of saying this on a post about when they do go boom.
Flashlight and vape enthusiasts are mostly adults who likely trend as all three of: older and more knowledgeable, more likely to take and accept risks, and more willing to pay a premium for the benefits of replaceable batteries... and the companies that make vapes and high-powered enthusiast flashlights are probably less worried about a customer suing them over a battery issue than a large toy manufacturer. If you're a vape company, you have bigger safety issues to worry about -- like the normal operation of your products :)
I'm with you on the risk/benefit calculation. E-waste is bad, and the option to bring a spare battery makes a lot of products more useful. A Li-ion cell can be dangerous if mishandled, but less so than a jug of gasoline or larger power tools.
This can be considerably mitigated by sticking a protection circuit on the end of a cell, which makes it no more dangerous than the proprietary Li-ion batteries used in things like cameras.
There are no mercury alkalines anymore for general consumer use, those collection bins were removed from stores in the 90's and they can be disposed of with normal waste.
I do often stick unprotected cells in flashlights that came with protected ones. It's important to know whether the flashlight can over-discharge the cell, but most can't, and it's important to not short-circuit them. I suggest people who don't want to learn about batteries stick with protected.
I'm not sure who to trust, but I've erred on the side of caution and trashed the batteries. Because it's not worth dying in a fire over $30 in batteries.
That is not true. Please don't spread misinformation that could lead to deaths or people losing everything they own.
You can put out a Lithium battery fire with a class-D fire extinguisher. If you don't have one available, you can isolate the burning battery by surrounding it with sand or other inert, dry substances to keep it from spreading until the fire department arrives with proper equipment to dispose of or extinguish it.
https://www.anker.com/rc2506
My current perspective, recall or not, is their quality is no different from the alphabet soup companies selling identical looking (and possibly identical) items.
It seems like the overheating issue is “not thier fault,” but part of being a trusted brand isn’t just recalling but vetting suppliers and the components they receive.
Here's a blog post with interesting information that just so happens to advertise how you can use our product
I mean, there's probably very good ROI on this marketing; I'm not saying they're foolish or selfless. Just that it doesn't cost them that much to do, so it's a win-win for everyone.
actually no let's not blend the lithium, forbidden inhaled powder
A) Keep using it, even if they do hear about the recall
B) Throw it in the trash can
[0]: https://www.theinternational.at/nusdorf%E2%80%90debant-500-f...
See also the CPSC link:
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2025/More-than-One-Million-Anke...
(Notably, this page mentions "Anker has received 19 reports of fires and explosions. This includes two reports of minor burn injuries not requiring medical attention and 11 reports of property damage totaling over $60,700." Puts it into context! That's not a house, but with numbers like that, I wonder if a couple cars were destroyed.)
There's also Anker's product recalls main page:
https://www.anker.com/product-recalls
which adds a few other models with different enclosures but presumably with the same upstream manufacturer to the recall.
Are models sold in some regions different/known-good?
Should probably at least discharge it to be safe(r), I guess.
Are you nuts?
X-ray inspection is not that rare, there’s even small assembly houses here (Spain) that can do xray automated inspection.
This has been standard for years to the point I’ve been sent forms for assembly houses RFQ where there are checkboxes for xray inspection, and I haven’t handled a serious assembly development in ~4 years.
What’s new and they’re advertising here is CT, which is another level.
https://www.lumafield.com/case-studies/loreal
https://www.lumafield.com/case-studies/case-study-enabling-8...
https://www.pcbway.com/pcb_prototype/Automated_X_Ray_Inspect...